FULL TRANSCRIPT: Interview With Special Envoy To China Mon Tulfo On His Decision To Get Sinopharm Vaccine

The following is the transcript of the interview of veteran journalist and special envoy to China Ramon “Mon” Tulfo with “The Chiefs” on One News / TV 5 on Tuesday night, Feb. 23, following his admission that he was inoculated with China-made Sinopharm vaccine to test its efficacy as he wants to be its distributor in Metro Manila.

Read more: Mon Tulfo On Sinopharm Vaccine Side Effect: It’s Like Taking ‘Viagra,’ But Only For Two Weeks

DOH, FDA To Probe Mon Tulfo Over Smuggled Sinopharm Vaccine; Palace Mum

ROBY ALAMPAY: Welcome back to “The Chiefs” here on One News. We are now on the final stage of our conversation. Now joining us, special envoy to China, Ambassador Ramon Tulfo. Good evening, ambassador!

RAMON TULFO: Good evening…

ROBY: Good evening, ambassador. Diretso po ako doon sa column ninyo last week. Kasi may column kayo sa Manila Times, very interesting ang title ng column ninyo: “Vaccine arrival, delayed.” Why? But before we get into that, meron din kayo doong sinulat, sabi niyo: ‘I have to admit, nakakuha na ako ng ano… Nabakunahan na ako last year.’ And you also said: ‘Don’t ask me where I got it, I will never tell.’ Baka mawalan naman kayo ng respeto sa akin if I don’t ask you this: Where did you get it?

RAMON: ‘Di ba, sabi ko hindi ko sasabihin kahit na pitpitin pa ninyo ‘yung yagbols ko. [laughter]

ED LINGAO: Pero, sir, tayong lima lang naman ang nag-uusap eh.

ROBY: Atin-atin lang…

RAMON: Lima? Limang milyon! [chuckles]

ROBY: HIndi, sige, sir—okay, so nandoon na tayo, but you put it out there. You said, I want to be transparent about this. But let’s be transparent also of the whole context. ‘Nung time na ‘yon, wala pang approval ng FDA. ‘Nung time na ‘yon, even Malacañang was getting questioned about papayagan ba ito kung walang ano… People are raising questions about anything that was used with the PSG as, by definition, smuggled. And it’s a serious question, especially given that you have a position in this government. You are a special envoy to China. What do you say to people saying you have to come clean here and declare ‘how would you have access to this?’

RAMON: But you also must remember that although I’m a special envoy to China, I’m also a private citizen, at nag-a-apply ako ng distributorship ng Sinopharm kaya ko naisipan na magpabakuna kasi available na sa market although smuggled nga kaya… Eh gusto kong makatiyak na kung effective sa akin, malamang effective sa sambayanan kasi I’m 74 years old at maraming mga allergies.

ROBY: Would you acknowledge, sir, that there… You said nga, ano, special envoy – that’s a public hat – you’re a private citizen at the same time, you insist. But isn’t there precisely a conflict of interest there because it is public position that allowed you to have special access to these samples and to test it out yourself? And then, as you said, with an “I” towards being a distributor?

RAMON: I never… I never used my position as special envoy in securing the vaccine. I… I just got hold of the vaccine from a friend, who smuggled it into the country.

ED: Pero, sir—granted, sir, ano—you are a special envoy to China. We are talking about a Chinese vaccine and, at the same time, looking at a massive vaccination program in the history of this country, which could result in a contract that is humongous. So, that does raise the question nga po, like what we said, na wala ho ba kayong nakikitang possible conflict of interest dito, considering your position and the fact that it’s coming from China?

RAMON: None at all. Wala akong nakikitang conflict of interest.

LUCHI CRUZ-VALDES: Bakit hindi eh envoy kayo sa China? Marami kayong koneksyon sa China. Pwede ninyong makahon ‘yung kontrata because of your—

RAMON: Hindi ko ginamit ‘yung aking posisyon, ‘yung katungkulan bilang special envoy sa China kasi dito ko nakuha ‘yung vaccine. Hindi nga ako makapunta sa China dahil may pandemic, ‘di ba?

LUCHI: HIndi, we’re talking about the distributorship. If you’re going to apply or bid, make a bid to actually get a distributorship position, ‘di ba? Eh, siyempre, kumbaga, hindi ba may advantage na kayo dahil kayo ang special envoy? So, there’s a conflict of interest, ‘di ba?

MON: Wala akong nakikitang conflict of interest dito dahil private citizen naman ako eh. Besides ang special envoy to China is just an honorific. Ang trabaho niyan is one peso a year. I’m not a government official.

LUCHI: Yes, but your connections—

MON: Kung kukuwanin mong… If we become technical about it, I’m not a government official. Honorific ‘yung titulo ko.

ANA MARIE PAMINTUAN: Ano na ‘yung status ngayon ng ano… You’re saying you’re applying for distributorship. Ano na ang status ngayon ng application mo?

RAMON: Wala pa nga e kasi hindi pa rin… Hindi pa rin nakakapasok ‘yung vaccine dito, so put on hold.

ANA MARIE: Pero may application na kayo sa FDA? It’s Sinopharm?

RAMON: Yes, ‘yung Sinopharm ay, ang pagkakaalam ko, may application na sa FDA. In fact, si Pangulong Digong nagsabi na na gusto niyang magpabakuna Sinopharm in public. Sinabi niya mismo sa akin ‘yan.

ED: Opo. Ambassador, ang sabi po sa amin ni FDA Director Eric Domingo, mga three weeks ago lamang, hindi sila pinapansin ng Sinopharm. Walang application na nakukuha ang FDA from Sinopharm at all. They haven’t gotten any sign of interest from the vaccine maker specifically po. I remember that’s what he told us eh. If not in this program, in the other programs.

RAMON: Ang pagkakaalam ko, ang Sinopharm, which is owned by the Chinese government ay hindi directly nakikipag-deal sa private entity. ‘Yung pagkakaalam ko ‘yung kumpanya rito, ‘yung Apollo, ay dumaan pa sa Singapore—subsidiary sa Singapore ng Sinopharm.

LUCHI: So ‘yung application mo, Mon—sorry, Mr. Ambassador—‘yung application niyo…

RAMON: Mon, Ambassador, pareho lang ‘yan…

LUCHI: Okay, okay—with Apollo ba ‘yan, not necessarily with a Chinese drug company or the maker in China? Ganoon ba ‘yon?

RAMON: Apollo is a drug company. Kaya ako nag-apply diyan dahil sabi ko baka makatulong ako sa pag-spread, pag-disseminate ng bakuna.

ANA MARIE: Ng Sinopharm.

LUCHI: But are they the makers of Sinopharm, ganoon ba ‘yon?

RAMON: Sila ‘yung representative dito sana. Kasi they secured a contract with the firm in Singapore na subsidiary ng Sinopharm.

ROBY: Mr. Ambassador, ito po bang… ‘Yung the vaccine shot that you got, is this part of the same batch that was used on the PSG personnel?

RAMON: Correct, yes.

ROBY: Pareho. And so, as you said, that essentially confirms – as you said – that ‘yung ginamit sa PSG were smuggled vaccines?

RAMON: Correct.

ROBY: Now, don’t you see — I mean, if you won’t… If you will insist and we’ll leave it at that na, you know, you don’t see any conflict of interest. Do you see the irony in it? Specifically, a private citizen, a media giant—Mon Tulfo—receiving smuggled goods?

RAMON: Hindi ko ma… Hindi kita maintindihan dahil alam mo hindi lang ako ang nakatanggap ng vaccine eh. Maraming mga government official ang nakatanggap eh. Hindi ko lang pwedeng maibigay ‘yung pangalan sa inyo.

ROBY: Then I will rephrase. Did all government officials, including you as special envoy, essentially received smuggled goods? Knowingly received smuggled goods?

RAMON: I don’t feel guilty about it. [crosstalk]

LUCHI: Wala kayong nakikitang irregularity doon, the fact na nag-smuggle kayo ng vaccine na hindi—

RAMON: HIndi ako ang nag-smuggle. Hindi ako ang nag-smuggle.

LUCHI: OK, OK…Pero tinanggap mo, parang ganoon, so walang—

RAMON: Yes, yes… In fact, sinabi ko ‘uy, meron palang… Pwede palang bakunahan ako dahil gusto kong malaman ‘yung efficacy nito at I left word nga sa pamilya ko na kung ano mang mangyari sa akin ay sasabihin nila sa publiko.

ANA MARIE: So, ano naramdaman mo when you got… You got the full dose na ba, two doses?

RAMON: Yes.

ANA MARIE: Ano naramdaman mo?

RAMON: Dalawang linggo ang pagitan.

ANA MARIE: Ano naramdaman mo after the first and the second dose?

RAMON: ‘Yung second dose, tumitindig. [laughter]

ED: Okay, I think we should leave it at that.

ANA MARIE: ‘Yung first dose, ano naramdaman? Nilagnat ka ba?

RAMON: Wala akong naramdamang lagnat. Basta palagi lang na tumitigas. [chuckles]i

ANA MARIE: ‘Yung sa second dose?

RAMON: ‘Yung sa second dose, ganoon din, ganoon nga—‘yon, after the second dose. Pero hindi naman tumagal ‘yon e. Mga two weeks, ganoon na lang palagi.

ED: OK, so that’s a good reference in case we run out of other drugs.

RAMON: Tinanong ko rin ‘yung aking bodyguards – kasi nakasabay ko silang kumuha, pinakuha ko rin sila – ganoon din ang pakiramdam nila. Wala, hindi sila nilagnat o ano man.

ROBY: OK. Ambassador, if you don’t mind, balikan ko lang ‘yung title nga ng column niyo. And the title of the column, the whole point of the column, beyond – and we appreciate you taking our questions – but the point of your question was: “Vaccine arrival, delayed. Why?” And you were talking about how you already got President Duterte in touch with the representatives of Sinopharm here. Pagkatapos, for some reason, something went wrong. Nagulat ka: ‘O, ba’t hindi na… Ano nangyari? Hindi natuloy?’ Pwede bang ikuwento niyo lang mabilis and what was your concern here? And ano ‘yung gusto niyong ipahiwatig dito on why the vaccine arrival was delayed?

RAMON: Alam mo, dapat tanungin ninyo si czar Carlito Galvez kasi inatasan siya ng pangulo. Actually, ‘nung nasabi ko na… Nakipag-usap ako sa kanya last week, if I’m not mistaken, last week or two weeks ago. Sabi niya gusto niya magpabakuna and ang preference niya Sinopharm. So, I had him talk over the phone with a representative here ng Sinopharm. At sinabi nga ng pangulo na gusto niyang magpabakuna (at) kung kinakailangan ay susulat siya sa Sinopharm. Ngayon, parang inatasan na niya na makipag-usap ‘yung Sinopharm representative kay Carlito Galvez pero hindi… Galvez was always unavailable. He was not available. At saka narinig na lang daw niya na ayaw sundin ni Galvez ‘yung utos ng pangulo.

LUCHI: Bakit daw kaya?

RAMON: Hindi ko alam. Tanungin mo siya.

ANA MARIE: Ambassador, ililinaw ko lang, ano. Ikaw ba ‘yung naglapit ng vaccine sa PSG?

RAMON: Hindi.

ANA MARIE: O nakisabay ka lang sa kanila?

RAMON: Sumabay lang ako.

ANA MARIE: Sila sumabay sa’yo?

RAMON: Oo, sumabay lang… Hindi ko nga kuwan eh. May mga kasabay akong government officials na nabakunahan. Nabalitaan ko na lang na ‘yung mga miyembro ng PSG ay nabakunahan din—the same vaccine.

ROBY: Cabinet-level po ito? You’re talking about Cabinet-level officials?

RAMON: May Cabinet-level, merong senador…

ANA MARIE: As far as you know, walang nagkasakit sa inyo simula ‘nung na-vaccinate? Walang nagkasakit?

RAMON: Wala eh. Nagtanong-tanong ako, wala eh. Walang nagkasakit. ‘Yung mga driver ko—dalawang driver, dalawang security, ganoon din. Wala silang naramdaman kung hindi maliban doon sa sinabi ko.

ANA MARIE: No, I mean, walang nagka-COVID simula ‘nung na-vaccinate kayo?

RAMON: Wala na.

ROBY: Pero nabanggit niyo rin po kasi sa column ninyo that one of the things that happened after you said the President requested to get samples for him and his family, and then you had a small conference with Roberto Borje, Palace protocol officer—

RAMON: Borje, ‘yung protocol officer…

ROBY: Yeah. And then Lisette Marquez, Appointments Secretary, and also you consulted with Galvez and Eric Domingo of FDA, and you said—you seemed to suggest that one of the things that held it back was questions of propriety. There were concerns na baka may masabi ang mga critics, baka may masabi ang opposition, specifically.

LUCHI: Ang oposisyon, ang dilawan, yeah…

ROBY: But didn’t that eventually acknowledge that there might be proprietary, if not, legal questions here?

AMB. TULFO: ‘Yung pangulo na ang nag-utos sa kanila eh. Ano pa ‘yung proprietary na pinag-uusapan natin dito? E gusto ng pangulo mismo, siya na mismo ang nagsabing gusto niyang magpabakuna ng Sinopharm, at ‘yun lang ang gusto niya.

ED: Actually po, I think that is the point nga po eh. The fact that it’s the President himself on the phone (who) asked for samples of the vaccine for himself and his family over and above everybody else. As a journalist, don’t you find that in a way, inappropriate or even with conflict of interest?

RAMON: I don’t know. You have to ask the president that.

ED: Yes, sir, but I’m asking you as Mon Tulfo—the journalist Mon Tulfo.

RAMON: I don’t find any irregularity there.

LUCHI: What about the fact that you know who smuggled it and…

RAMON: Si Pangulo hindi siya humihingi ng smuggled. Ang sabi niya gusto niya ng sample from Sinopharm mismo. Hindi na siya… Ayaw niyang…

LUCHI: No, my question Ambassador Mon is, in other words, alam up to the highest levels of government na smuggled ‘yung vaccine, and so ang ibig sabihin ‘non ay ‘forget about investigating this smuggler. We know who he is and we allowed it.’ Parang ganoon. Everybody’s on that same page.

RAMON: Tanungin mo sila. Hindi ako ang dapat tanungin niyan.

ROBY: Which is why… Kami, as media people, we’re talking to you as a media person. And when people know you precisely for your columns, you’re well-connected sa NBI, sa Customs… Pagka si Mon Tulfo nagsulat about smuggling, about corruption, about nakakalusot sa sistema, naku may ano diyan… And people know you for that. And now, you’re saying you don’t see anything wrong with you yourself benefiting from a product that you knowingly took, which was smuggled?

RAMON: Anong preference ninyo? ‘Yung buhay ng karamihan ng mga tao or… Alam mo, we’re now given a choice: ano ‘yon? Ang importante, which comes first: the lives of millions of Filipinos or ‘yung propriety? Tanong lang.

ROBY: Well, I think there’s a way to walk that line down the middle. You have regulatory agencies like the FDA. The FDA has been saying ‘we want to do this and we want to do this right. The problem now is iniikutan kami ng highest people in government. Nobody is paying attention to us, not the president, not the Cabinet officials, not the military, not the PSG. Even when we investigate, we’re getting stonewalled – that’s the word of Eric Domingo, the director of FDA – nobody is paying attention to us. Isn’t that precisely the answer, sir? You have the FDA who can walk that line; who can take care of our people, work with the DOH to work for the safety and health of our people, and at the same time, do it properly according to the protocols and the laws of this land?

RAMON: Alam mo, ‘yung sabi ni… Nagtataka lang ako si Eric Domingo rin – si Galvez, si Eric Domingo – ang ayaw na mabakunahan si Pangulo ng Sinopharm vaccine [kahit] ‘yun ang kanyang preference.

ED: Sir, baka it’s possible naman kasi na dahil hindi pa nag-a-apply hanggang ngayon ang Sinopharm ng FDA approval. I mean, how can they… These are regulators e. How can they, in any way, recommend the vaccination with Sinopharm if it has never even applied for an FDA approval?

RAMON: Alam mo ‘nung matapos akong nakipag-usap kay Pangulo, ‘yung representative tumawag na sa China at sinabi sa China, sinabi ng China dumating na sa – in fact, it reached the department or the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of China, at binigyan ng go-signal na magbigay ng samples sa pangulo at saka sa kanyang pamilya. Pero dahil ayaw ni Galvez, tinutulan, hindi malaman ng China ngayon kung anong gusto natin.

LUCHI: Eh kasi dapat ‘yung sample pinadala nila sa FDA. Bakit nila pinapadala sa presidente? I mean, they should go through the process, right?

RAMON: Yes, I know. Hindi ako dapat ang tanungin diyan. Pero sila mismo ang humaharang eh, ‘di ba? Ang sabi ng presidente: ‘gusto ko magpabakuna.’ Eh bakit nila hinaharang?

ED: But, sir, even the president has to obey the law.

RAMON: Yes, alam ko ‘yan. Pero sabi nga ng presidente, kung kinakailangan kong sumulat sa Sinopharm, gagawin ko.

ANA MARIE: Are you aware that all drugs have to pass through the FDA bago magamit sa Pilipinas or before it can even enter to the Philippines? Are you aware?

RAMOn: Yes, that’s right. Kaya nga ang ibig sabihin ng pangulo, kailangan ipadaan muna kay Galvez. Pero ayaw ni Galvez ng Sinopharm for reasons only he knows.

ROBY: Sir, one final question po, if you don’t mind. ‘Yung application niyo po to be distributor of Sinopharm, is that still pending or is that a story of the past?

RAMON: Hindi ko alam eh. ‘Yung pending na application ko doon sa Apollo. Hindi sa Sinopharm.

ED: To be the local distributor of Apollo?

RAMON: ‘Yung Apollo kasi ang magiging distributor sana dito. So, I was not dealing directly with Sinopharm, with China. ‘Yung dito sa kompanya na ito, sa local company, ‘yung Apollo, nag-apply ako.

ANA MARIE: So, hindi ka sa government nag-a-apply? Doon ka kay Apollo lumapit?

RAMON: Correct, doon ako kay Apollo lumapit.

ANA MARIE: Not in any government agency? Hindi pala.

RAMON: Correct, hindi. Hindi siya government, hindi siya China, kasi ‘yung Apollo ang may kontrata. Sabi ng Apollo may kontrata sila sa Sinopharm through the subsidiary in Singapore.

ROBY: OK. Ambassador, I hope you don’t mind, one last quick question. Balikan ko lang po. You said, you don’t see any conflict of interest here, but you are applying to be a distributor of Sinopharm and you are now criticizing government officials who are standing in the way of approving and allowing the distribution of Sinopharm. Don’t you see any conflict of interest there?

RAMON: I don’t see any conflict of interest at all. Si presidente na nga mismo ang nagsabi na gusto niya ng Sinopharm. Bakit nila hinaharang?

ED: Pero, sir, ‘yun nga. It goes back to that e. They have not even applied for FDA (approval). I know, sir, you are getting furstrated about this. But the fact of the matter is, even the president has to follow the law, and of course you are also aware of that.

RAMON: I am aware of that.

ED: Okay, maraming salamat po, ambassador… Special envoy to China Ramon Tulfo. Sir, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

RAMON: Thank you.